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Flax field retting
Just a note on this 'negative' aspect - I agree that there is a higher risk of damage using this method, due to the unpredictability of weather, but I dont think it is necessarily always the most sustainable way (if you consider these losses as inefficiencies or waste). There is a group in Italy called Fibranova working on hemp textile production there, using warm water retting with some bacterial strains, and have recently had an extensive LCA (Life Cycle Analysis) carried out on the process. It was found that the water was relatively low-impact, and certainly more predictable than field retting (which incidentally is not possible in Italy because it is too hot, so the hemp just dries instead of retting). I think these principles could be applied to flax to give other options than field retting.
Emily, York, 08 June 2006
UK hemp - we're working on it
I love this tshirt idea! Just a note about hemp - though you cannot currently buy UK produced hemp yarns or fabrics, there are people working on it! We chose hemp over linen because flax does generally need some herbicides whereas hemp can more easily be grown organically, but both are pretty low impact in the scheme of things. As far as I can tell, linen has had much more development carried out on it as a fibre and I'm sure there are finer yarns available than for hemp as a result. I work for environmental group BioRegional (www.bioregional.com) and manage a research project funded by the DTI (Dept Trade & Industry) working with UK hemp farmers through Hemcore, the last few textile spinning mills in the UK, and a number of university researchers developing new methods to extract the hemp fibre from the stalks hopefully making the fibre finer and more cotton-like, and the process more environmentally friendly and economic to produce in the UK. This technology could potentially be transferred to any area that can grown hemp once we have developed it, so to keep production local. Will keep you posted on progress. The yarn made from wood pulp - is this lyocell? can't wait to see samples of this fabric!
Emily, York, 08 June 2006
The Local Tshirt
I think the factory sounds amazing - more of everything should be made there!! I have been watching your progress on this project and love the fact that the decision process for each stage is shared online and open to suggestion and discussion - truley organic. I cant wait to be wearing my perfect T! Keep up the ace work!
Charlotte, North Yorkshire, 24 April 2006
local?
I think local is a bit misleading. Having materials and production in close proximity is great for reducing energy use but shipping from western europe to japan (or skye, or malaga) slightly defeats this point. I don't think anyone is suggesting the t-shirt is only sold to people living in a 20 km radius. And while I'm not denying that there's real poverty in the UK and elsewhere in Europe, that's what we have established systems of social security and wealth redistribution for. There is no global system of wealth redistribution and so ethical international trade and investment is perhaps the best thing we have.
John, E+, 24 April 2006
Joe: Not despondent (cotton t-shirts)
Joe, unfortunately straightforward organic cotton t-shirts don't make the grade for us, even if they are manufactured in a highly ethical way. Our proposed cotton t-shirt (see the first potentially perfect t-shirt option on our site) is made from organic cotton that is also completely rain-fed - as well as being Fairtrade accredited. There are already plenty of people making excellent organic cotton t-shirts - and our goal is to go further than any currently available solutions - to create more choice, raise awareness of the issues, and hopefully champion new standards along the way. For us, the perfect t-shirt is a constantly moving goal, so even when it's launched we'll already be refining a 'better' version - I don't think we'll ever be sitting back and saying 'we've looked at everything, etc, etc.' If you want to know what's wrong with most other t-shirts (including organic) then please check out the detailed facts on the 'About' section of our site. And as per my previous post, if you want to say more, please call or email to continue this offline. PS: Well done for being the first 'open-source' manufacturer though, that's a really positive step (though as you point out, a potentially dangerous one).
mike, peckham, 19 April 2006
Joe: PS
Well Joe, the possibility depends on whether you're prepared to buy a machine to perform the recycling yourself, rather than relying on someone else to do it for you (apparently they're available at a very resonable price second-hand). No-one provides this as an outsourced service at the moment, because there's no demand for it. However, the recycled t-shirt is not my personal favourite anyway, and since it's not many other people's either, I imagine we won't be pursuing it further. I have to say that when we made this forum available it was intended to be a space for people to inspire each other with possiblities, not to simply point out the difficulties (which we are well aware of already). If you want to go into any further details, please feel free to send us an email or give us a call and we can take this up outside of the forum.
mike, peckham, 19 April 2006
ps
re: not despondent
Mike - I've already done it. Having divided up what cannot be done from what can be, I invested my own money into creating a clothing line. I'm not dispondant whatsover, I'm realistic. We now have a range of organic cotton clothing which is produced in unionised factories in a place where people really need work. The cotton is produced as close to the factory as can be done, cutting out unecessary transportation. And the factory is close to the UK - so less transportation of the final product. Our brand is open-source, so anyone can come along and see exactly who is involved in the production.
joe, coventry, 19 April 2006
Best option, but needs improvement
I don't understand why it has to be linen. Why not organic hemp and/or bamboo? These seem to be more comfortable to wear as blends than linen. Also, wood pulp from forest harvesting? I have concerns that harvesting trees to keep forests healthy is a myth. Just for the record, I don't mind wearing less dye to avoid the polluting solvents and water waste.
Tania, Los Angeles, CA, 18 April 2006
sj@vitalthreads.com
have you thought about adding hemp to the mix rather than linen? hemp requires less chemicals in the production and growing processes and can and IS grown in parts of europe currently. if you have not chosen hemp for a reason, i would be curious to know why. it also creates a garment that naturally protects the wearer from uva/uvb rays when out in the sun. hemp is AMAZING!! why harvest wood pulp or support the deforestation of our earth when hemp can be grown on existing deforrested land AND actually promotes healthy topsoil and protects from erosion and depletion. i vote for hemp, locally produced and manufactured as much as possible and as low impact on the evironment as poss. clay dyes are also a good way to bring color to the garments without having to use harsh mordants.
thanks. keep up the conscious works.
sj*
sarah, houston, tx, 17 April 2006
I like it local
I'd buy any one of these shirts. Each one is a gigantic step away from the shirt I am wearing right now. And as more people put their money into efforts like these, more choices will become available and we can all have exactly what we want. Please just don't start crying about the price. Mass production and chemical shorcuts aren't to make better shirts, they are to make cheaper shirts.
P.S. Who says dyes have to be toxic?
Tim, USA, 17 April 2006
Hey Joe
Hey Joe, it's good to see you're doing some serious digging into the issues. If you're anything like us, you'll be feeling very despondent about how hard it is, how little support exists, and maybe even whether it's posssible to make a real difference in the big scheme of things. But hang on a moment, as we've observed on this site before, no-one ever said it was going to be easy. After all, if it was easy, then surely by now lots of people would already be doing it? And there are in fact lost of individuals and organisations already doing their bit to make things better, though admittedly there's a lot further to go. The real question is, do you want to join them, or stand on the sidelines sniping? If enough people, on all sides, pull together and gradually chip away at the prevailing orthodoxy, then real change will emerge. For our part, we're going to make a t-shirt. It may not be quite 100% perfect (and we've still got a lot of issues to face to bring it to market) but we've come a long way already. And there isn't one t-shirt from the four we've proposed that couldn't be made. Sure, it depends on some fundamentals like what will it cost to produce, and how much will people pay for it, but that's the next step of our journey. For now it's enough for us to offer four different visions of potential perfection, based on our learning to date, and find out what everyone thinks. So thanks Joe, for your spirited debate, and whatever shape your part in making positive changes takes, we wish you all the best with it.
mike, peckham, 17 April 2006
unworkable ideas
But Cate, the problem I have with all these ideas is that they are almost all totally unworkable. How many clothing manufacturers are there in Africa - ok we could grow the cotton, but who is going to invest in the manufacturing plant? Where is the hemp going to come from? I phoned the federation of hemp farmers the other day and they told me that the supply of clothing quality yarn from hemp is only available from China. The recycled cotton idea sounds fine, but it is unworkable as old clothes cannot be stripped of their fibres and made into new clothes. The best you can do is to reuse fibres that the spinning factory normally throw away (which is what I understand those who use 'recycled cotton' are actually doing). OK, I appreciate this is supposed to be thinking out of the box, but surely there is a difference between being creative and coming up with an idea which is never going to get off the design board in a million years (unless you can find some serious amounts of cash).
joe, coventry, 15 April 2006
re: dyes
I know Joe, I'm probably the most fearful about an undyed t-shirt here at better thinking! We either need to find a non-impactful dye, educate people so they see undyed t-shirts as responsible and therefore preferable, choose to put the recycled t-shirt into production, or accept that there's a tradeoff and dye another of these potentially perfect t-shirts... I'm just trying to work out if there's a way of minimising those tradeoffs.
Cate, Nunhead, 13 April 2006
dyes
Cate said As long as everybody realises if you want this shirt to be coloured, there will be an environmental impact! The recycled shirt is the only shirt that offers guilt-free colour! Not many people want to wear undyed t-shirts Cate. Asking what is the best possible t-shirt seems to be a bit daft if this produces a product that very few people will wear. It becomes just another pipedream and another stick to hit people with who are not 'environmental' enough. Other than the deep-greens, ask yourself who is going to wear a t-shirt that constantly looks dirty?
joeturner, coventry, 13 April 2006
The local t-shirt vs Damien's views
Thinking about Damien's response again, where he says we should make the socially responsible t-shirt because 20,000 organic cotton farmers worldwide would benefit through the awareness it would raise. But the local t-shirt also raises awareness about good solid sustainability principles, such as the synergy of impact reduction when everything is done locally, as well as promoting organic production methods.
As Edwin Datchefski said in his email to me: 'Remember that there are many routes to 100% sustainability, so you could have several winning designs.' It's a shame we can only make one perfect t-shirt at this stage.
Cate, Nunhead, 13 April 2006
Dyeing disagreement
I've noticed I've one of the highest levels of disagreement with my comment that As long as everybody realises if you want this shirt to be coloured, there will be an environmental impact! The recycled shirt is the only shirt that offers guilt-free colour! Why are people disagreeing? Have you read this detailed blog entry about so-called natural dyes?
Cate, Nunhead, 13 April 2006
expensive
Nice idea, but labour costs in western countries would make it economically unviable. Also, whilst many of our cities (including Coventry) were built on textile production, most of these have now gone and the reinvestment to bring back the machinery would be enormous.
joeturner, coventry, 12 April 2006
There's something to it!
Make it better
Cut and Sew micro-local
could the Western Europe factory process the raw fibre into cloth, which could be distributed to smaller producers in each country - micro-businesses! it's not only in 3rd world countries that there are problems with povery and employment - for example, the old industrial heartlands of Wales and the North of England are struggling, and perhaps this could be the future of local production for ethical fashion?
damian, Wales, 11 April 2006
T-Shirt
Close call between this one and the African option. Solar powered factory swung it but why not this in Africa? In the end thought that there may be other more beneficial uses of land in Africa than growing t-shirts for us in the UK.
Graham, London, 10 April 2006
This is great....
re: hemp
re: start- up costs
It shouldn't be that much more expensive, it exists already! In the long term it's actually cheaper cos it sells energy back to the grid. But yes, it's going to be interesting to find out how much it will cost to make it all in Europe...
Cate, Nunhead, 10 April 2006
start-up costs?
This is a great idea as it has such a low impact on the environment. But isn't the cost of setting up and manning a solar-powered factory in Western Europe going to be incredibly expensive? Would investors be willing to give the amount of start-up capital required or would the t-shirts have to be priced higher?
Rosie, Hackney, 09 April 2006
Hemp
Best Option But Give Something Back
This is definitely the best option in my opinion as it is environmentally friendly, locally sourced & produced and doesn't harm anyone. I can't help feeling bad about the West African farmers whose organic rain fed cotton we have declined to use. Thus I think it's only fair that a substantial and clearly defined percentage of the profits should be used to help farmers such as these (and their families/communities) who do not benefit from the high EU standards we are used to. That way, everyone wins :)
Ecomonkey, Auckland, NZ, 07 April 2006
Weather for Linen
This t-shirt sounds like it really will happen! I love the idea of the renewable energy, using less water (which no one has much left of anyway!). Linen is hardwaring, soft and breathable (allowing us to use less chemically based antiperspirants!). I'd certainly make it, buy it and wear it!
Marissa, Putney, 07 April 2006
Persuade the sceptics
Local considerations
What I love about this idea is that it's an alternative to the homogenised global brands everywhere, which is so prevalent. A t-shirts design could be adapted to the local climate or cultural considerations. That's if it could be the sort that could be made in lots of places, and not just in one place and shipped.
Gail, Dulwich, 06 April 2006
local yes... but pin real life?
This is definitely my favourite option as it seems to me the greenest and most ethical (less pollution, more community) but will it make sense economically and what about perfect t-shirts for the rest of the world... could they be made anywhere? or would they have to be shipped out?
Petz, Barcelona, 06 April 2006
Local shirts for local people
How will it react to washing?
I have had linen trousers which were very soft and pleasant to wear when I bought them - then when I washed them they became hard and tough. How will this t-shirt stay soft and stretch enough to fit my big, Japanese-shaped head through the neck hole?
Yuko, Tokyo, 05 April 2006
My favourite
Go on, make my life easier!
It seems a lot less daunting to make this shirt should it turn out to be the favourite. The simpler supply chain will make everything much easier to manage, and the fact EU legislation is covering the whole process makes it so much easier for us to say it's been made ethically. I wonder how it will compare on price though?
Cate, Nunhead, 05 April 2006
Local
Until our government allows the use of EV's in the United States- Local farming and production would have the least impact on our tainted world. Yay for organic local farmers and responsible factories! j
Joshua, NYC, 14 July 2006
168 agree 121 disagree Agree Disagree